Re: [NTLK] Be-all End-all sync app...

From: tfbiii_at_nbscomputers.net
Date: Mon Apr 29 2002 - 10:10:50 EDT


Sigh...

OK, I picked up the P*lm spelling when I joined this list. P*alm (note
the A) was an accident. I don't know why I do it, I'm just maintaining
sensitivity to the people it matters to. Most hackers I know will spell
phonetically (or at least a variation of it) so it's not related to that
IMHO.

We're still going round and round a bit, I see where you are coming
from, but for me to sign-up with a Power-On project, they would have to
make what I'm looking for, Mac 9/Mac X/Win32 compatible. It would need
to work with a variety of PIM's also. I have no intention of installing
Now-Up-To-Date. That's just me. There are a few thousand users on this
board, you may be able to come up with 1-2000. I see Power On just make
a plug-in that allows you to transfer data to an iPod, maybe one of
their High-IQ boys will be willing to update the Newton Sync pack.

100 for a tool of this nature is a modest fee for me.

I'm just hoping that some developers to start to talk because of this.
Maybe Victor will start a dev.newtontalk for them. Who knows. Us talking
about it is all I was hoping to accomplish. If we talk, maybe someone
with the skill will listen. Paul G. is working on ATA and will NOT buy a
house with the proceeds. I will buy the ATA drivers when they are
available and maybe he'll take his family to dinner with the fee. It's
the least I can do for someone like him. Hopefully, his family will get
many dinners from us. Paul and people like him deserve it and they are
the people I'm talking about for an undertaking like this.

I think I managed to be shorter this time...

Fred

-----Original Message-----
From: SlashDevNull [mailto:slashdevnull_at_mac.com]=20
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Newton
Subject: Re: [NTLK] Be-all End-all sync app...

Salutations,

  OK, here we go.

>=20
> Well, let me start again here, and I'll try to be brief.
>=20
> Personally I feel the P*lm is an inferior device, but it has superior=20
> software on the PC side (when I say PC I mean Mac and Wintel boxes).

  Why do you keep spelling Palm 'P*lm'? Is this some sort of 'I'm a
cool hacker dude who spells it different because all of the old linux
people used to spell Unix 'Un*x''? Afraid of the lawsuits? Geez.
>=20
> There are various conduits available to sync various different=20
> PC-based programs with the basic apps built into the handheld. They=20
> are all controlled by the basic HotSync program. Sure, there are some=20
> third-part sync apps like Intelli-Sync, but even that interfaces with=20
> HotSync and expands it's functionality to different hand-held devices.
>=20
> What we have, is each PC based app needs it's own Sync program, some,=20
> as in the case of Outlook, need more than one program and we still=20
> don't get ALL of our data across.

  Sure, I understand that. See below.

>=20
> I understand development time, I understand costs, I've been in this=20
> business a long time. I'm just trying to plant a seed. If someone has=20
> had a Hot-Newt idea and started working on a project, share it. If=20
> they ran out of time, pass it on. It's not a marathon that needs to be

> run by one person, make it a relay race. A lot of people have had=20
> great ideas for products and gone very far with them. I just want some

> of them to get together. I don't want to see someone give up because=20
> they had other commitments or simply had to follow the money in order=20
> to keep food on the table. You can fault people for that. It's a fact=20
> that no one is going to buy a new house writing programs for the=20
> Newton, why not have a group of people give a bit of their time for=20
> the love of the Newt and modest Shareware fees ;-)

  You apparently don't understand development time. It all boils down
to MONEY. There are two types of developers, those that want to make
money for their work and those that don't. They ones that are coding
for free will code in their spare time. The ones that want to get paid
will make time. And if a developer spends hundreds of hours or more to
make a shareware app, he certainly isn't gonna give it away. Of course
a few who get out of the business entirely may, but then they aren't
looking at making money with that program anymore.

  If YOU want all of these developers to get together than YOU have to
do it. Otherwise you are just wishing. And you have to find all of the
developers that want to this, that are willing to contribute code, that
are willing to work on a part of a program while others work on the
rest. Most won't because once you figure out the datastores and the
protocols the rest is easy. And you need to hope that they will do this
for free or were you planning on paying them until the shareware fees
roll in?

  And give up the pipe dream about 'modest shareware fees'. I'm willing
to drop $100 for such an application, maybe more. You need to look at
the market size vs. the development time. It isn't as if this
application would reach two hundred thousand people and all are willing
to buy it. I have no idea how may would spend the money. That is why I
kept trying to see if people would sign a petition to gauge response.
 =20
>=20
> I understand your example of Now-up-to-date, but you're missing MY=20
> point and being to specific. Think of the "big picture". I'm assuming=20
> you've used a P*lm and understand exactly what I mean when I explain=20
> HotSync and the difference between HotSync and the P*lm desktop.

  I know exactly what you want. You someone to write high level APIs
that others can use in any program they want. No one is going to do
that. Getting the API's is the the hardest part. Writing a
calendar/contact manager/notes application around them is trivial. Why
would any develop the API's and then sell them to another developer?
And even if the API programmer made a royalty off of each program, they
are still splitting money they don't need to split. The application is
where the real money is made.

>=20
> I know that we are both missing each other's points, but I hope that=20
> this helps us see things a bit better. (Especially since you said you=20
> have 3 Newtons and I still only have one :-(... show off)
>=20
> I think we're close when you mention the plumbing, but a commercial=20
> app like that will NEVER drop into one of our programmers laps so he=20
> can rip it apart. My dream is of one program to do the work, various=20
> plug-ins that tell it what to do. Write it in C and it can be ported.

  Why does the application have to fall in one of our programmer's laps?
Who cares about ripping it apart? If enough people buy it, and upgrade
it BECAUSE of Newton support, then the Newton support will always be
there. I don't care who writes it. A 14 year old pimply faced geek, a
60 year old assembly coder, a russian halfway around the world, are a
damn elbonian. It doesn't matter to me.

  All I want, and I assume most of the others, is the end product. I
don't care if it is open sourced or not. Hell, microsoft could even
write it and I would buy it as long as it is not trash and is Mac OS X
native.

  The bottom line as always is money. All of us Newton users have to
make it worth someone's valuable time. Personally, I think it is easier
to show PowerOn Software that they have thousands of sales if they would
re-enable the Newton code that is ALREADY in the product. The base
price of the application is $130. Does anyone not here think that if we
collected a thousand pledges to purchase the product and showed them
$130,000 they may put the Newton code back in and made it work? What if
2,000 people said they would buy it? They would could show them a
quarter of a million dollars. Any company would listen to that.

  And 'C' portability? That's a fallacy I don't want to get started on
that.

>=20
> Darn...I said I would be brief...

Yeah, I know the feeling.

Cheers,
David

>=20
> Fred
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SlashDevNull [mailto:slashdevnull_at_mac.com]=3D20
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 5:36 PM
> To: newtontalk_at_newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] Be-all End-all sync app...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Salutations,
>=20
> I think you missed all of my points.
>=20
> ---snip---

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