Re: [NTLK] [OT] newtontalk Digest V2 #439 Football and nationalism

From: Jon Glass (
Date: Sat Jun 15 2002 - 03:37:55 EDT

on 6/14/02 10:54 PM, Robert Benschop at wrote:

>> I think that there is nothing wrong with 'ultra-nationalism' whatever it
>> is. Does it mean you love your country so much that you don't like other
>> countries? If so, so what.
> I really don't want to join all the off topic stuff that was lately on this
> list, but to this I just can't be silent.


You have to understand that there is a different understanding of the term
"nationalism" in the US vs. in Europe. In the US, nationalism is almost
synonymous with patriotism or love of country. They don't equate it with
Nazism and other evils that Europe has experienced at the hands of
ultra-nationalists. In their minds, being proud of your country and being
willing to fight to defend it is a good thing. This is where nationalism
ends. It doesn't extend to extermination of people who don't fit your
nationalist world view, and the other things that Nationalism truly

Another thing you might consider is that in the US, ethnicity is not in any
way connected with the concept of "nation." Our nation is one founded
primarily on ideals, and is composed of people of many ethnic backgrounds
and national backgrounds. Nationalism is the one thing that binds us
together--the ideal of our national heritage. Since this brand of
nationalism stems not from ethnicity, but from ideals that we wish to share
with the rest of the world, nationalism is a good thing--from this
perspective, of course.

What this all means is that when a Euro says "nationalism" he doesn't mean
the same thing that an American means. In that, you must be careful.

I hope you can calm down enough to realize this different perspective, and
see that he didn't mean what you meant when he said what he said. :-)

I will admit that I was quite confused when I first came here, how
nationalism was such a dirty word. I decided to dig to the bottom of it, and
the above is what I came away with. If anybody would like to discuss this
topic--not argue or throw names, but discuss this seriously, I suppose I'm
game, but OFF LIST, please. :-) (Sorry for shouting, but I _really_ wanted
to make a point here. :-)

-Jon Glass
Krakow, Poland
"I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 tent just to hit some
camel in the butt." --President George W. Bush

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