From: Paul Guyot (pguyot_at_kallisys.net)
Date: Fri Jan 20 2006 - 22:00:20 PST
David:
> However, I am greatly confused and nearly offended by the notion
> that rather out-of-the-blue "the community has not supported us and
> some other developer is trying their own thing without consulting
> us or our body of work so far."
Obviously, I haven't been able to clearly explain what I meant. I
didn't mean this. Please let me reclarify.
David:
> why, I must ask, is this our first notice? As a member of this
> community why are you just telling us now when there is no going
> back? And lastly, what is it that we as a community have done
> wrong? How could we correct this yet unknown offense?
There is no offense. I was just a little bit disgusted by a
situation, not by people. I am not blaming anyone and especially not
you. This is not the first notice. This is not a situation where
there is no going back.
The DCL is still available on sourceforge. The source code is
available there. The latest source code is actually in the
sourceforge CVS. It is declared "no longer supported", which means
that we officially do not support it. We won't fix any bug until
further notice. It doesn't mean no bugs will be fixed ever since it's
available in source code format, anyone could fix bugs. I might one
day work on it again.
In other words, I am making official something that exists since
2004. The message changed a little. Before yesterday, I replied to
help requests concerning by the DCL by saying we had little time and
we were aware of the problems and the shortcomings. "Yes, this
feature is interesting". Now, I just say that the project is just no
longer supported. Go on sourceforge and fix it yourself if you have
the required skills, use other programs otherwise, we lack any
motivation to fix it, we are busy with other projects.
That's the only thing that changed.
ADyson:
> Could you please explain exactly what or who has caused you to take
> this action?
I just noticed that the community including developers does not know
how to deal with open source code. This is not new. I mean I
discussed this here in the past. The DCL experience is a complete
failure in this regards. Probably because it was too ambitious.
Probably because the communication layer was a big pain. Probably
because we released binaries with too many bugs in spite of nights
spent on it. My feeling is that some users ask for too much (cf the
message in this thread mentioning a software doing both Windows and
Mac synchronization, come on, Newton developers often use Mac or
Windows, not both) and the developers duplicate work too often. This
is a complete waste of energy. I don't want this to happen again and
until further notice I will not open source any other Newton
software. I spent a lot of time to get the DCL compile with some
version of the linux gcc compiler that did complain with my mac
source code, to help a porter of the core technology to windows. And
there was strictly no outcome of this effort. Modern linux compilers
just can compile my code. Nothing was released for Windows.
Retrospectively, I just feel it was a waste of time.
Let me give you another example. I just got a mail asking for a
change in More Wifi from someone who says he cannot open the archive
because it seems to be a WinNTK project or anything Windows format
and he has a Mac. I don't recall what file I did put on my website,
but it surely isn't a WinNTK project since I do not work with
Windows. I just don't have the time, the source is out there and I am
asked to make changes myself. It's a waste of time of this user since
he obviously tried to modify the source code (he even used an
hexadecimal editor) and a waste of my time.
ADyson:
> I for one would boycott anyone who has offended our Newton King and
> urge you to reconsider continuing your very important and ground
> breaking work.
I am no Newton King and I am not offended either. The truth is I no
longer use a Newton since 2003. I have a single unit around and it
just doesn't have batteries, the power adapter European plug is
broken, I didn't bother to find another US->Euro adapter and it took
me some time to recharge it enough just before the WWNC to make some
test. I didn't even bring it to San Francisco.
I am just a Newton developer who, like all other developers who
remain, spend the very little amount of my spare time on the
development of Newton-related software. And declaring the DCL
unsupported just means that I won't work on it, not that I will stop
any other Newton development.
Michael:
> How could we, as a community, better support work done on DCL?
The DCL is no longer supported doesn't mean the community has to
support it. If some developer is interested and doesn't decide to
reinvent the wheel, they could support it. Until then, it's just
lying there, on sourceforge. And I have backups in case sourceforge
disappears.
All:
I guess the confusion came from the fact that I wanted to declare the
DCL no longer supported which is not something new, just a new way to
say something that exists for quite a long time now, and at the same
time state my opinion on open source and open sourcing Newton
projects. I have been constantly asked to open source my projects
(check the archives) and when I read a developer wants to reimplement
the docking protocol which is one of the few things the DCL does
right and no other library does except Apple's PDIL, I just say no, I
won't spend the time to open source anything else and support another
Newton open source project.
Sorry to have seemed so rude and offended, I didn't mean it. Time is
what I lack most to work on Newton development, I'm just trying to
limit what I see is a waste.
Paul
-- Ministre ultraplénipotentiaire en disponibilité. Mobile. Sans baignoire fixe. http://www.kallisys.com/ http://www-poleia.lip6.fr/~guyot/-- This is the NewtonTalk list - http://www.newtontalk.net/ for all inquiries Official Newton FAQ: http://www.chuma.org/newton/faq/ WikiWikiNewt for all kinds of articles: http://tools.unna.org/wikiwikinewt/
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