Re: [NTLK] Geez people, freaking get over it

From: Joshua Johnston (flagg_at_midmaine.com)
Date: Fri Jul 19 2002 - 12:58:44 EDT


I think the best thing Apple could do is to continue iTools service to
people already signed up prior to the .mac announcement at iTools
levels, and just not accept any new free user accounts, as well as start
expiring ones that don't see any use. I think given time and new
features in .Mac, people will probably consider paying for those
features too.

It's just a pretty bad call for Apple to do something like this when the
fan/user base is still reeling from the transition to X and the slapdown
of the "rumor" sites. It shows an awful disregard for people that bought
Apples. As I've said on Slashdot a number of times, I'm a recent
pre-Switch switcher, and I've had some regrets. Apple hasn't done
anything to make me feel better about them as a company.

-----Original Message-----
From: newtontalk-bounce_at_newtontalk.net
[mailto:newtontalk-bounce_at_newtontalk.net] On Behalf Of Joshua Johnston
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 12:51 PM
To: newtontalk_at_newtontalk.net
Subject: Re: [NTLK] Geez people, freaking get over it

Well, when I bought my iBook one of the things it actually shows on the
box is "iTools". They advertise it as a part of the Apple experience,
part of ownership, simply by putting it there.

You might not be entitled to every -enhancement- when an OS gets
updated, but I would think you're entitled to what you paid for in the
first place. I think that's where this all breaks down. If you think
you paid for iTools when you got the Mac, then you're likely to feel
bait-and-switched. If you think of it as a bonus, you're not.

I think of it as being bait-and-switched, but since I got my iBook for
$789 in November, new, I'm not going to make too much of a stink. But I
will sign up to a class action over it.

-----Original Message-----
From: newtontalk-bounce_at_newtontalk.net
[mailto:newtontalk-bounce_at_newtontalk.net] On Behalf Of SlashDevNull
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 12:42 PM
To: Newton
Subject: Re: [NTLK] Geez people, freaking get over it

Salutations,

on 7/19/02 10:20 AM, Stephen Jendraszak at stevehj_at_mac.com wrote:

> On Friday, July 19, 2002, at 02:13 AM, SlashDevNull wrote:
>> .Mac is still a part of OS 9 and X. .Mac is better integrated than
_any
>> other_ Internet suite and OS out there. That integration and service
>> _does_
>> cost money.
> Yes, it does. And we paid that money when we bought OS 9 and/or OS X.
> Apple is not in the right to suddenly deactivate a feature of an OS it
> is still selling!

I'm sorry. You are right. When you buy an OS or a computer you are
completely entitled to every future service or enhancement for as long
as
you live. And iTools is _not_ a feature of the OS. Itools is a
separate
service. I thought that was obvious.

>
>> Ok Mr. Finance. How would you do it?
> I dunno... in a way that is ethical? Apple has managed to make money
> before without stooping to MS-esque tactics.

So charging money for a service is unethical? And this isn't MS
tactics.
Apple is _not_ driving anyone out of business. Apple is _not_ stealing
code
from a competitor. Apple is _not_ entering a "business partnership"
just to
look at code to steal it later. Apple is _not_ changing their licensing
agreements every year forcing companies to continue to purchase licenses
for
machines that already have licenses. Apple is not forcing you to use
their
products/tools/enhancements to their OS.

I am still waiting for your solution. Anyone can stand back and bitch
about
what others do. You said Apple could do it. Tell me how.

>
>> Exactly. You paid for the development of iTools and the initial run.
>> Which
>> has been several years. Itools is not .Mac. It is hugely
successful.
>> It
>> is used by 2.2 million people. Apple simply can not afford to keep
>> paying
>> for over 2 million people internet services.
> Apple has no right to deactivate services that I ALREADY PAID THEM
FOR,
> that are part of two operating systems I still use. Make a new service
> called .Mac? Fine. But leave iTools alone.

Hmm. I fail to see how you paid for iTools. And if you had purchased
_any_
extra hard drive space, you will get a free year of .Mac.

>> The bottom line is that it is very expensive. I think it is naive
for
>> you
>> to think that Apple is making more than a tiny amount of profit from
>> each
>> account of .Mac.
> Yes, iTools was an expense. Just like it is expensive to hire
> programmers to write the OS, etc. But people who buy a copy of the OS
> are PAYING for your expenses. And it is extremely shady to take a
> feature of the OS they bought, turn it off, and say they can have it
> back for $50.

What exactly do you not understand? You _didn't_ pay for iTools. You
paid
for the OS. .Mac is a _very_ substantial upgrade than iTools. It is
_not_
shady to try and recoup their investment, after losing a ton of money
for 2
years, by charging for a substantial upgrade.

>> If you don't want to pay the cash, then don't use it.
>>
>> You can find cheaper email and web services. Just remember that you
get
>> what you pay for.
> It isn't the fact that it costs money that annoys me. What gets me is
> the sheer sleaziness of this maneuver. If .Mac was a new service
> announced today, it would be totally okay to charge for it. But it
> really isn't a new service... it it iTools plus a couple things

Well, I'm sorry it costs money and upsets you. It is not sleazy. Let's
look at what Apple _is_ doing. All of the iApps are still free. And
getting constant upgrades. Apple is _not_ doing goofy things with their
OS
licensing like ms is. Apple is _not_ treating you like a thief when you
install your OS like ms does.

  Sure, I think Apple should offer a free POP3 email address. But they
don't.

  Has anyone looked at what .Mac offers? Have you looked at the Virus
software? Do not the software virus companies charge for virus updates
after a year?

  Has anyone looked at the backup software? There is a _real_ gem
there.
This is the first backup solution that integrates the internet with OS X
that I have seen. I pay $15 a month to back up documents and such over
the
internet. Of course, I get a bit more drive space, but this is offsite
backup storage for OS X. This is something that I have been waiting for
quite a while.

  This is a good deal. If you don't like it you can always go with
hotmail
(with service drops every month) or yahoo (with ads everywhere and slow
page
loads).

  As before, if you don't want to pay, you don't have to.

Cheers,
David

>
> sj
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevehj
>

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