From: Nicolas Zinovieff (krugazor_at_free.fr)
Date: Thu Apr 22 2004 - 14:56:58 PDT
Pour visa
On 22 Apr, 2004, at 20:41, Luiz Petroni wrote:
> Is it possible at this time to turn the DCL project to a (as you named)
> "closed/shareware" state?
Quite frankly, I am totally opposed to this kind of change.
The opposite way is doable (like the Blender fund bought Blender from
their rightful authors to opensource it), but (and that's a HUGE but)
the DCL is already donationware (thanks to the people who donated, by
the way!)
> If so, how much would a single licence cost so that the DCL team would
> be able to support their programming efforts in order to publish a
> fully functional dumb user version of the connection utilities (what I
> mean here is something with the GUI and as easy to use as NCU)?
The worst part is that Escale does aim at replacing NCU, and can
already be taken seriously for that. We install packages, use the
keyboard, are able to transform a text to a paperback book (through the
cmdline, but that would be the easiest thing on earth to do in the GUI)
and are very close from doing backup/restore , plus it has a more than
decent GUI thanks to mi(c)i. Right now, except for backups I don't use
NCU anymore. And I backup maybe once a semester, whereas I read a
couple of books a week on the newton, and I type a few notes... (we
have the pasteboard working as well!). And the thing is even
AppleScriptable!!!!
Granted, it's not hugely documented since it is a very heavy process
for us developers...
> I believe that the community see a really great effort being made from
> the DCL team and also the great potential this connection libraries
> have but, whenever I read a post from any of you trying to technnically
> explain the process or how to use what is already functional <snip>
> . It seems to be way ahead the
> general Newton user. Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I feel.
I hope you're wrong. Don't misunderstand me: quite a bunch of the DCL
is highly technical. Only Paul understands it fully sometimes.
But what about Delivery (package installer), Escale (NCU replacement),
NWT->XML (notes converter), PBBookMaker (Paperback newton book maker),
La Hotte (Package server. Do everything from the newton!), PackageUtils
(guess that one), ... ?
Are they targeted at developers as well?
YES, everything comes together, because the licence we develop under
compels us to give all or nothing. And we'll stick by it because it has
many many advantages for us.
> I really don't see how we can effectively help
Argh argh a thousand args!
OK, let's sum it up:
- code. For example, we don't have windows boxen, you could help
porting part of the DCL to the Windows platform. There is no such thing
as a "too small contribution" in that area. However, we'd like you to
respect the current "style" of the code... Just in case we need to read
it ;-)
- documentation. If you can't code, but you can read code, you can spot
documentation gaps, translate it (most of it is in French), enlighten
the code by explaining how it works, etc...
- application. You can fix our rough translations of the interfaces, of
the help, of the documentation, etc... Or you can add your own.
- testing. Thorough testing and bug reports are highly welcome. But you
need to run the latest version (the nightly one or the CVS one if you
can compile it yourself), and you need to be precise and reproductible.
If you manage to get 3 or 4 times the same error by doing the exact
same thing on the very latest version, congrats! you probably found a
bug. Login on bugs.kallisys.com and let us know.
- ideas. YES! We would love hearing from you guys. But not stuff like
"I'd like it to be like NCU"... Find the glitches. Draft new features.
Explain them as thoroughly as possible. Start explaining how you would
like to see this feature work. Start talking about implementation. The
key thing is precision. Size does not matter. I repeat for the
gentlement in the back who are giggling. Size of an idea DOES NOT
MATTER.
- donate. You have a Newton that would be a good test base for our deep
NIE meddling? Spare my only Newton! You think you found a bug with very
specific hardware we don't have? lend it to us! You think we work too
much? Bring on the beer caps! You'd rather give money? Feel free to do
so, mi(c)i is in charge of the donation thing.
- nothing. You can do nothing? You don't know how to code? You only
speak Sanskrit? You don't have any idea and you don't want or can't
donate any time, hardware, software or money? just send a kind note to
Paul, Michael, or myself.
If you want a somewhat more structured piece of information, I suggest
you take a look at Paul's post named "[ANN] Towards DCL 1.1 :
PBBookMaker for Unix" (10 April)
> Recently a lot of members helped another NTKLer (sorry I don't remember
> his name) to get all the necessary stuff to continue to his
> developments (newton, memory cards, keyboards,...) and if IIRC someone
> sent a celular to Eckhard to help in his developments with Blunt.
I know, I gave out time, hardware, and money to various people.
> Maybe some funds could be raised for the DCL project too. Maybe not a
> donation but a shareware fee would be a good option because as you
> said, if we pay for the DCL we will make your lives a complete misery
> until we get the software does what we want it to do! ;)
It's a bit late for that... 4 or 5 years back, we would have given it a
thought. Today, the business is not there anymore. It's basically a
matter of pride, of need, and of gambling.
OS9 is dead.
NCU is dead.
There is no support from Apple for us Newton developers on these
technologies.
We DO need a replacement.
Hopefully we are on the right track... we have worked VERY hard to get
the communication layers online, the NewtonScript objects mapping in,
and to retro-engineer quite a bunch of stuff.
We are just betting that when it will not be possible to run "ye olde
toolz" anymore, you WILL have an alternate way. Until then, get ready,
improve, test. That's the spirit.
How would you feel if you worked on a present for a long time, and then
the person you offer it to says "It's ugly, I'll pay you back"? :-D
-- Nicolas -- This is the NewtonTalk list - http://www.newtontalk.net/ for all inquiries Official Newton FAQ: http://www.chuma.org/newton/faq/ WikiWikiNewt for all kinds of articles: http://tools.unna.org/wikiwikinewt/
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