From: Jeff Sheldon (jeff_at_jurai.net)
Date: Thu Mar 04 2004 - 22:03:45 PST
I was going through some of my old Newton files looking for some saved
eWorld interviews and found this "live interview" from AOL with Doug
Menuez. In it he has some comments on the Newton.
--
The following file is a transcript and has not been altered in any
way. All of the information that you see is as it was typed directly
by the guest(s) and emcee(s).
MENUEZ Hi, thanks for having me.
Mac Way 1/100 of the features of an N90 type camera
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OnlineHost "Newton" isn't new to Center Stage. Members were
introduced to the information storer-retriever a
short while ago. Tonight, however, you can learn
what went into "The Making of the Newton: The
Inside Story." Hosting tonight's event is author
Doug Menuez (MENUEZ) who wrote "Defying Gravity,
the Making of the Newton". Joining Doug will be
fellow author Guy Kawasaki (MacWay).
OnlineHost Doug Menuez began his career shooting for
newspapers in 1978 and shortly thereafter won an
internship at the Washington Post. In 1982 he began
working for Time, Life, Newsweek, US News, Fortune,
People, USA Today and other national and
international publications, accepting assignments
to cover news, feature stories and sports in the
US and abroad.
OnlineHost Menuez has covered many of the major news stories
of the day, including the famine in Ethiopia,
presidential campaigns and party conventions, and
the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984. He has documented
the homeless in America, the destruction of the
Amazon rain forest and the AIDS story. His work has
appeared in six "Day in the Life" books, "The Power
to Heal", and the "Circle of Life".
OnlineHost In 1987 he founded Reportage, a photographic agency
specializing in black-and-white photojournalism for
corporations. He has completed special assignments,
annual reports, books, videos and long-term
documentary projects worldwide with his team of
associate photographers for such companies as Apple
Computer, Beckman Instruments, Eastman Kodak, Avco
Insurance and more.
OnlineHost In 1989, Menuez co-produced "15 Seconds: The Great
California Earthquake of 1989", using Macintosh
computers to complete book layout and design in ten
days. It was number one on the San Francisco
Chronicle bestseller list, selling more than
70,000 copies. It raised over a half-million
dollars for earthquake victims. Now, meet your
host, Guy Kawasaki and his guest, Doug Menuez.
LindaG24 Hi Everyone, and welcome honored guests!
Mac Way Hi all. Guy here.
MENUEZ Hi, Great to be here!
Mac Way I'm going to ask you a few
Mac Way questions and we'll be soliciting questions
Mac Way from the audience at the same time.
MENUEZ OK. REady when you are
Mac Way Briefly, tell us about the book you wrote. What's the
format? etc
MENUEZ It is a photo and text documentary of Apple's quest
to come up with the next cool technology. The form
MENUEZ format is unusual in that we combine black and white
photos with text in sort of magazine style layout
MENUEZ we call it a bookazine
Mac Way What sparked the idea to do the book?
MENUEZ As a photojournalist
MENUEZ I've covered lots of stories
MENUEZ around the world but I'd never seen photos of the
people
MENUEZ who create the new technologies that
MENUEZ impact our lives. Also, I have become increasingly
aware of
MENUEZ the immense
MENUEZ changes going on in business today
MENUEZ I wanted to combine these two ideas:
MENUEZ like Soul of a New Machine and Day
MENUEZ in the life.
Mac Way How unrestricted was your access?
MENUEZ I had a 24 hour unrestricted badge
MENUEZ and pretty much came and went in the labs as I wanted
to.
MENUEZ Of course, the story was happening on three
continents
MENUEZ at once and there were certainly things that I
missed.
MENUEZ And I also think that as the tension increased there
were efforts
MENUEZ made to keep us out of certain loops, particularly
management stuff
MENUEZ but we developed great sources and were able
MENUEZ to get great back channel info on what
MENUEZ was happening. By the way
MENUEZ we did not report everything we learned by any means.
MENUEZ We took the point of view that although this was
MENUEZ a warts and all story, we felt that it was a positive
story
MENUEZ of high-level risktaking of the kind that other us
business should be taking to compete and survive
MENUEZ in the 90's.
Mac Way How'd you get Apple to open the kimono? Did you have
a picture of Sculley in fishnet hose?
MENUEZ I missed the fishnet shot, but did get him getting
make-up on at CBS at 3am
MENUEZ I got access because I of a combination of the trust
I'd built up in the valley working on non
MENUEZ disclosure for a number of firms. Also the personal
relationships I had at apple helped, but the over-
MENUEZ riding thing was probably that Apple felt that so
MENUEZ much of the Newton project was a crapshoot, and "what
the hell, at a minimum we can learn from it"
MENUEZ was kind of the attitude toward the book. I think. I
should explain that
MENUEZ I was invited to come in and shoot for Apple in Early
1992 by Keith Yamashita. I immediately saw
MENUEZ in the Newton project my chance to combine the
technolgy story with the behind the scenes at at
MENUEZ a company in transition story and began
MENUEZ lobbying Apple to come in as a journalist. It did
take about six months to convince them. Once they co
MENUEZ committed, the commited to the idea all the way.
Mac Way What do you think of the Newton bashing that happened
right after shipment?
MENUEZ Unfair, but not unexpected.
Mac Way Why do you say not unexpected?
MENUEZ Well, I think there was and is a big gap between the
high
MENUEZ expectations for Newt and the product that shipped.
MENUEZ It was fairly clear that there was a huge buildup and
frankly I don't think Newton would have matched
MENUEZ the expectations even if it could wash your car.
Mac Way But didn't Apple/Sculley cause this gap by over-
hyping?
Mac Way If they caused it, they should suffer the
consequences.
Mac Way Live by hype, die by hype, I say.
MENUEZ Absolutely, I agree.And yes they did hype it, but it
was interesting to see what they did
MENUEZ from the inside, and the huge result in the media
from actually very little hype.
Mac Way Who's the engineering genius behind the project?
MENUEZ There were many. I will get killed for this but these
folks come to mind: Steve Capps who in many ways
MENUEZ was the soul of the NM and spiritual leader
MENUEZ , also Walter Smith, Michael Tibbot, Bob Welland
MENUEZ Michael Culbert, Larry Kenyon, Suki Lee
MENUEZ Sarah Clark, Don Luv, Martin... Impossible to name
all but I should also mention Larry Tesler
MENUEZ who saved the project from being killed and led the
MENUEZ team for three years before turning it over
MENUEZ to shane.
Mac Way Is Sculley the visionary he tried to make himself out
to be?
MENUEZ I think you can trace Newton to John
MENUEZ s vision for an product that would have intelligent
assistance and
MENUEZ be very personal, going back to knowledge navigaton.
MENUEZ He was the only senior mgmt guy to actively support
newton and keep it funded. He should get credit fo
MENUEZ for that. The idea with Newton for John I believe
MENUEZ was that Apple missed a big opp to license the mac OS
and that Apple should create new products
MENUEZ for new markets and
MENUEZ develop new revenue streams. This was smart but long
term, not very popular in today's US biz world
Mac Way When I was working on Mac at Apple, the Apple II
people resisted it.
Mac Way Are the Mac people resisting it?
MENUEZ The history at Apple is that the new technology
MENUEZ kills the old. That was true here. It was like a
rebel unit for awhile.
Mac Way For a while? How is it now?
MENUEZ Now, the whole org is accepting and supporting Newton
more broadley. There was huge resistance for the
MENUEZ longest time. Newton was taking $ away from the cash
cow and that was resented. There was no
MENUEZ way to prove that Newton would work. Even little
things
MENUEZ got resitance such as changing the font from Apple
Garamond to Gil Sans created stress.
Mac Way Why did your book end at the intro of the Newton?
MENUEZ When we were planning the book and our own production
schedule, we had
MENUEZ to pick an end point in advance. We thought it would
be interesting for readers to fill in the blanks
MENUEZ as to what happend to Newton in the market. It
MENUEZ also seemed natural to break of with the "birth" of
newton.
Mac Way Here's a question from the audience.
Mac Way Do you have and juicy features and arrival time of
next generation Newtons?
MENUEZ There are several new configurations in the pipeline
but I am not at liberty to say much..
Mac Way Okay, then what would you think would be the natural
progression?
MENUEZ I think you will see Newton's in different form
factors for different segments of the market
MENUEZ I also think Newton technology wil be incorporated
into macs and everything in your house from your ph
MENUEZ phone to your frig.
Mac Way Another one from the audience.
Mac Way What was your reaction when you saw the Doonsbury
cartoon?
MENUEZ I thought it was funny. The team was thrilled since
they were instantly elevated to cultural
MENUEZ icon status. But it speaks to the misunderstanding
MENUEZ about the handwriting recognition. The thing is that
you have to train your newton. It also is diction
MENUEZ ary based so that proper names are not in the
dictionary, so it does not get them until you ad
them.
MENUEZ This is a problem obviously, in that the first thing
people want to do is write their names!
Mac Way Yeah, but why didn't the team make the decision to
put more words in the dictionary?
Mac Way This seems as dumb as shipping the first Mac with
only 128K
Mac Way Which, I was a part of this dumb decision
Mac Way :-)
MENUEZ Its interesting what people do under pressure. That
was one of the things we wanted to convey.
MENUEZ That is the context of the process leading up to ship
date. There are 10,000 words in the dictionary a
MENUEZ and the team felt that was a reasonable start and
that users would add to that... good question
MENUEZ I bought a 128 k mac by the way and I loved it
despite the lack of software
Mac Way Thank God for people like you. Hey, Habadex was great
in its time.
Mac Way And all the clipart! What do you mean no software?
Mac Way Another audience question: What are the plans for
incorporating cellular phone technology in Newton?
MENUEZ Remember Main Street Filer? Siemens is at work on a
version of Newton that has
MENUEZ a phone built in and I am sure you will see more
MENUEZ comm stuff soon. Every conceivable type
MENUEZ of communications that exists is built in to newt
Mac Way Say it's ten years from now, how many Newtons do you
think will have been sold?
MENUEZ Billions. Actually, I think Newton will survive,
evolve and prosper.
MENUEZ The fact that Apple just announced the catagory PDAs
MENUEZ set off a whole new market.
MENUEZ There is a lot of support strangely enough, from
MENUEZ newton competition to see it succeed. It expands the
market for everyone.
MENUEZ I really like my Newton, and use it daily.
MENUEZ I think it is a huge leap forward toward the vision'
MENUEZ of truly intuitive tools that are user friendly'
MENUEZ that started with the mac. That is the key thing.
Mac Way "It expands the market for everyone." Bill Gates said
that to me once. :-)
Mac Way So if you could change one feature of the Newton,
what would it be?
MENUEZ I would like a backlit screen right now, but that is
an energy issue
Mac Way Okay, we've been going for 45 minutes.
Mac Way Plug your book: name, price, how to buy, etc
MENUEZ :-) Thanks! I'd be happy to.
MENUEZ Called "Defying Gravity: The Making of Newton"
available at fine bookstores everywhere or direct
from
MENUEZ the publisher at 503-647-5109. The bookstore price is
$29.95, a great deal since you
MENUEZ get 130 black and white photos and terrific, high
MENUEZ quality production and 30,000 words of text.
Mac Way Does Beyond Words have any other interesting books
coming out soon?
MENUEZ :-) I'm glad you asked. Being a leading edge
publishing firm
MENUEZ Beyond Words is bringing out your new book soon.
Please
MENUEZ say a few words about "Hindsights" guy.
Mac Way Nah. Here's another from the audience. Do you think
Newton is a "bet the company" product?
MENUEZ Yes and no. Macintosh has had several years of
MENUEZ rapidly decreasing margins, and very little market
MENUEZ expansion, save for the powerbook burst last year.
MENUEZ I think Apple must expand its markets and Newton is
the
MENUEZ first product they'
MENUEZ ve come out with for a whold new market.
MENUEZ It is too early to
MENUEZ tell if it is really going to save the company.
MENUEZ Probably, it will be a combination of
MENUEZ Power Pc products, increased flexibilitiy of the mac
and
MENUEZ Newton.
Mac Way Another one from the audience:
Mac Way Did the direction Sculley took with the Newton lead
to his being pushed out at apple?
MENUEZ I don't believe Newton was that
MENUEZ popular with the board
MENUEZ and John was its only supporter for
MENUEZ a long time. Again, it was a combination of factors
MENUEZ that led to John leaving.
Mac Way Another from the audience
Mac Way What's the history of the relationship between
General Magic and Newton/
Mac Way Are they competitive? Complementary?
MENUEZ We cover this in the book in more detail, but
MENUEZ the early origin was Marc Porat talking with Larry
Tesler about the idea and Apple's feeling at the
MENUEZ time that they could not support
MENUEZ the idea in house, and
MENUEZ that it would be better served as a partner
MENUEZ company. That led to Bill and Andy joining with Porat
to
MENUEZ leave Apple and form GM.
MENUEZ There was a time when Steve Capps was actually on
Mac Way What was "the idea?
MENUEZ the GM team and had to decide
MENUEZ whether to stay at GM or continue with
MENUEZ Newton. It became a bit of a rivalry and
MENUEZ was fairly complex. It is in the book.
Mac Way What was "the idea" that Tesler felt he couldn't
support inside Apple?
MENUEZ A new communications paradigm and business that was
not Apple's core business. I have to say
MENUEZ though that I am not the expert on GM.
Mac Way Is it true that you had a choice of going to George
Lucas's house with Robert Redford to watch
Mac Way a screening of Bob's new movie or do this conference?
MENUEZ :-) Yes!
Mac Way Do either of them use Macs or Newtons?
MENUEZ Both do. Lucasfilm is Mac City.
Mac Way Let's say it's ten year from now again
Mac Way will Newton have "killed" Macintosh?
MENUEZ No, because they are made for different purposes.
MENUEZ The newton is about
MENUEZ capturing your brilliant ideas
MENUEZ in the bar, or on the plane
MENUEZ and quickly communicating them.
MENUEZ The mac is about document production
MENUEZ and desktop publishing.
LindaG24 Well folks, our time is about up for this evening!
Mac Way What if you don't get brilliant ideas? Should you buy
a HP 100?
MENUEZ :-) Nah, I think Newton will inspire you!
Mac Way Well, that's it folks. Thanks for being with us.
Mac Way If you have any questions about the book, please
contact Doug
Mac Way at "Menuez." Beyond Words is also here at
"Beyondword."
Mac Way Night all!
MENUEZ Good night and thanks everyone!
LindaG24 Thanks you so much Mac Way and MENUEZ for this very
enjoyable hour!
LindaG24 Good night audience!
OnlineHost Our thanks to host Guy Kawasaki and his special
guest Doug Menuez for a fascinating glimpse into
the making of "Newton". Be sure to keep up-to-date
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help you make life easier. Thank you and good
night!
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