Re: [NTLK] [OT] newtontalk Digest V2 #439 Football and nationalism

From: hal9000x (
Date: Fri Jun 14 2002 - 10:06:07 EDT

I think that there is nothing wrong with 'ultra-nationalism' whatever it
is. Does it mean you love your country so much that you don't like other
countries? If so, so what. I am of German/Armenian descent. I am proud
of my heritage and love both countries. But, having been born in
America I am first and foremost an American. America is first in my
heart and always will be. Don't most of us feel, in some sense, that
way about Apple vs. MS to some degree or another. Of course there is NO
excuse for violence against another in this regard.

The letter below is from a recent issue of BusinessWeek to the editor
and comments on the BusinessWeek piece on the death of Pim Fortuyn and
immigration. It is a reasoned statement and sums things up nicely.

      "Murder in the Netherlands" was excellent, but it just scratched
the surface (News: Analysis & Commentary, May 20). Does Europe need
immigrants? If yes, what kind? Why must asylum seekers from Afghanistan
end up in Germany or France, not in Pakistan or Iran where they would be
better equipped to deal with the local culture and begin a new life more
successfully? Any European merely asking these questions risks being
labeled a racist, Nazi or worse. I have lived in Europe for the last 14
years and have witnessed this firsthand as well as seen it in the
European media.
      True, many rightist politicians addressing the immigration issue
have, by digressing into arcane, irrelevant, and largely incorrect
discussions of World War I and World War II, given leftist politicians
and the media the excuse not to address the real issue. But immigration
from countries very different from those in Europe is radically changing
the social fabric. Choosing not to discuss this fact has not made it go
Carl Alan Key

Just my two cents.


On Thursday, June 13, 2002, at 07:52 PM, Robert Fay wrote:

> Christopher Lee wrote:
> Think about it - you are talking about being swayed to the point of
> violence by the on-field performance of people who don't know you and
> probably wouldn't care to know you...professionals being PAID.
> ---------------------------------------
> I think it's rather ultra-nationalists who use football as an excuse
> for beating the shit out of people from other nations. I am reminded of
> that song by Billy Bragg, the title of which I can't recall right now
> but whose refrain is "What do they know of England, who only England
> know." Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm singling out Brits by quoting
> this. I'm not. Nationalist hooligans come in all stripes (and stars for
> that matter).
> Robert
> --
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