My take on this:
If an app has been abandoned (as in case of the reg code that was not
useable again), then yes I do not see a problem with use a Hack app to
regenerate it. As for desktop software, ALL MP2x0 and eMates shipped with
*a* version (normally NCU 1.0b6) of NCU. Now, you CAN post the NCU 1.0b6
online - the expiring beta, which is FREEWARE and then download the 1.1MB
UPDATER and update it to the full version and have a clear and healthy
conscience. On the other hand you could be like me and have a copy of the
MCUG (Mobile Computing User Group) CD-ROM with Newton Press 1.1, all Apple
CD-ROM/Disk data, applications, etc on it and be using that. But point is:
If someone will FINALLY put 1.0b6 (NOT b5) of NCU on the web we can download
it consceince free and update it to the full 1.0 and not be plagued by the
software piracy rights and restrictions (IF they bothered you in the first
place). Now for all good samaratiam purposes I will say that I intend to get
a single copy of eBase and only use it on one Newton... but... here is where
the REAL fun begins... Take NewtWorks and eBase and PocketQuicken - these
were programs preinstalled on some Newtons and WorksDraw but NOW ALL... my
MP didn't have WorksDraw and it took a few searches on Google to find Works
Draw. eBase is a data base app designed for the eMAte (runs super on the
2000) by SCTI, about $50 US, and is something I've been looking for - it
came free of charge on eMates bought from a certain dealer in the UK... so
if I got one of those eMates with the software on it not knowing that it was
activly sold could I beam it to someone else for their own use or maby beam
it to my eMAte and use it on there for a school project that was underway? I
mean we need to include human inacuracy to the point of some users don't
know... I believe in Shareware especially for the Newton... But what is
wrong with an honest mistake... when I was at a confrence and ran into
another Newton user we swapped shareware and be beamed me WorksDraw Was this
wrong... perhaps... did my MP have it on there at one time... probably so...
why didn't I have a copy of it - no disks came with my MP... So take this as
you will but I thnink there is a pretty significant line between piracy and
keeping NEwton alive - sharing an app you registered (like eBase) on 2 Newts
at one time would be, zapping a copy of NewtonWorks/WorksDraw probably
wouldn't be. Or that's how I'm seeing it.
-- - Chris B.A supporter of... \\ /, `( Newton Technology \ =
--------> AOL/AIM Name: JB1463 <-------- --------> ICQ#: 50117402 <-------- --------> Web Site: http://home.earthlink.net/~jb1463 <-------- >>>>>>>>>T H I N K D I F F E R E N T <<<<<<<<<
> From: "Gruendel, Frank 3837 PPE-WT" <Frank.Gruendel@de.heidelberg.com> > Reply-To: newtontalk@planetnewton.com > Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 14:38:21 +0200 > To: "Newtontalk (E-mail)" <newtontalk@planetnewton.com> > Subject: NTLK Very, very long (was: Software piracy) > > Ok, I don't want any complaints of the length of this post. See the subject > line. You have all been warned... > >> When people bought the original MP2000, it came with one licence for NCU. >> So, anyone that owns a 2000 series Newton also owns a licence to NCU. > > I know. This horse has been beaten to death. I know. We all have, at least > morally, the right to copy and use software because it is hard or impossible > to buy it. I know. We are all entitled to defining and adhering to our own > standards as to where piracy begins. > > I know. But maybe... we should take a look at the licence agreement everyone > has agreed to by pressing "ok" at some time during the NCU installation > process. Following is an excerpt from this license agreement: > > 2. Permitted Uses and Restrictions. This License allows you to install > and use the Apple Software on a single computer at a time. This License > does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a > time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software in machine-readable form > for backup purposes only. The backup copy must include all copyright > information contained on the original. Except as permitted by applicable > law > and this License, you may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, > modify, rent, lease, loan, distribute, create derivative works from the > Apple > Software or transmit the Apple Software over a network. You may, however, > transfer your rights under this License provided you transfer the related > documentation, this License and a copy of the Apple Software to a party who > agrees to accept the terms of this License and destroy any other copies of > the > Apple Software in your possession. Your rights under this License will > terminate automatically without notice from Apple if you fail to comply > with any term(s) of this License. > > Please note especially the "You may, however, transfer your rights..." > section. > Admittedly, my English isn't the best, but to the best of my knowledge "may" > means something like "you can choose whether you want to do this or not". It > certainly doesn't mean "you absolutely have to transfer this license to > anyone > who happened to buy your Newton". Neither does it mean "anyone > who happened to buy a Newton recently is automatically entitled to use this > software". > >> To make it official, when you buy a 2000 series Newt used from someone, >> specify that the licence for NCU transfers along with ownership of the >> Newt. If you are d/ling software for which you already own a licence, >> then you aren't breaking the law. > > This would certainly make sense. The question is how you are going to prove > you hold a legal license afterwards. I'd think that the single-sided > specification that you expect the Newton to be accompanied by a license > wouldn't be enough. I guess the only way to ensure this that can't be > shattered > by smart lawyers would be if you are registered under your name at the > software > vendor. After all, that is what registration is for. > >> Since we are all assuming that the licence of the OS itself >> is transfered with the Newton hardware (without stating this, mind you), >> the tools required to run the Newt fully, and that came with the Newt >> originally, can also assume to be transfered. > > The Newton OS, minus any updates of course, is in ROM and afaik Apple has > never provided a means to license ROM use. If you take out the ROM to use it > in another Newton, the first one is nothing but a paperweight. At > no time you'll be able to use *this* software in more than one machine. > Which > is what piracy is all about. > Provided, of course, you don't try to get it out of the ROMs it is in. Which > would allow you, for example, to build a similar device or use it for a > Newton emulator. Which is the very reason Apple doesn't provide any data > that > could be used to burn ROMs required in Apple hardware. > For the same reason, OS'es that are not cast in hardware tend to be > licensed. > Because you can use Windows on as many PC's as you dare to install it on. > Because you can use Mac OS on as many Macs as you dare to install it on. > >> Now look at >> Newton 2000 series machines. Each one came with a licence to NCU. Where >> did the licence go when the person sold the Newt? Even when you did not >> get the disc to the program, you can assume that the licence traveled >> with the Newt. > > No, you can't. See the license agreement above. It is perfectly within my > legal rights to sell a MP 2100 (which, unfortunately, I do not own) and > keep the NCU license because I'm going to use it with my 130. > >> Nowhere in Apple's licence agreement does it link the licence to the >> physical media that it was first released on. > > How about another excerpt from the license agreement... > > You own the media on which the Apple Software is recorded but Apple > and/or Apple's licensor(s) retain title to the Apple Software. > The Apple Software and any copies made and/or distributed under this > License are subject to this License. > > The physical media is pretty much *all* you own. If you scroll back a > bit, you'll find something like "This License allows you to install...". > "You" meaning you. Not "anybody who happens to have purchased your > Newton". If both buyer and seller agree to transfer a license, usually > there are ways to do this officially and legally. If they omit doing this > or can't prove they did, the license remains with you. By pressing "ok" > during the installation process, you personally agreed to this. > >> How about this... if you >> had NCU, installed it on your drive, then destroyed the disc it came on, >> would you then destroy your licence to the software? No. > > Right. But if you keep it on your disk and sell your Newton, would the > buyer be entitled to download and install a second copy? No. Even if you > are not currently using yours? No. See license agreement excerpt above. > >> Nowhere in the licence agreement does Apple state that the licence to NCU >> is non-transferable from the original owner of the soft. So, that is not >> an obsticle. > > Correct. But just downloading a software and using it doesn't exactly meet > the legal standards for license transfers. Neither does it meet what you > agreed to when you pressed "ok" at installation time. The problem is that > most people don't even know what they agree to as hardly anyone bothers > reading a license agreement at all, let alone top to bottom. > >> So, even if you did NOT get the software from the person who you bought >> the Newt, if they are no longer using Newton, you can assume that the >> licence went from them to you, even though you did not receive the discs. > > You can assume it, but you'd be wrong. For example because you can't prove > they won't be using Newton unless you had this in writing. For example > because > there is software like NCK I would happily keep on using even if I sold > every > single one of my Newtons. For example because I could sell my 2100 (which > I'd > never do, even if I were lucky enough to own one) and keep using NCU with my > 130 (which came without this license). > >> You can own a licence to a software without having a disc > > Correct. But ownership is something you won't be able to prove by simply > saying "I own it". Every legal system has standards and laws regarding what > it takes to prove you are a legitimate owner. Usually, the simple statement > "that's mine" isn't enough. Fortunately. Neither is "but I phoned this guy > back in 1989 and he agreed to transfer the license to me". > >> Discussion welcome, but do your research first if you dispute this. > > This will probably sound arrogant, which is not at all my intention, but for > what I said above there isn't much research required. Moreover, the > contributions to this thread so far, including those I'm currently answering > to, don't appear to be too thoroughly researched, either. > In my admittedly completely unimportant opinion, what I stated above can be > sufficiently backed up by plain common sense and a bit of license agreement > reading. > > That said: Thanks, Oz, for what you are doing for the Newton community. Life > would be way more difficult if you didn't do what you are doing. > > Frank (whose job, family and all the rest depend on whether people > keep buying the software I write for my employer...) > > :-)) > *************************************** > NewtonTalk brought to you by: > > EVOTE.COM -- the ESPN of politics on the Internet! All the players, all the > news, and the hottest analysis and features (plus 'toons!) anywhere.... visit > http://www.evote.com today! > > *************************************** > Need Subscribe/Unsubscribe info? > > Visit the NewtonTalk section at http://www.planetnewton.com >
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Sep 01 2000 - 00:00:11 CDT