NTLK NewtonMAD and it's originator, Kenneth Wong...

From: Gary Moody (gmoody@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Feb 21 2000 - 23:21:17 EST

Hi Guys,

I just got finished talking to Kenneth Wong, the original compiler of the
NewtonMAD archive. I thought you all would be interested in his take on the
current issues with the archive (in email thread - bottom to top- order)
He's tried to post these emails to the list, but they bounced so he asked me
to do it in his stead:

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gary Moody" <gmoody@hotmail.com>
To: kenneth.wong@theactiveidea.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning up NewtonMAD
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:27:54 PST
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Originating-IP: []
Received: from by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Feb 2000
19:27:54 PST

Hi Kenneth,

How're ya doin', my friend?

Okay, no one (I mean not ONE) has said ANYTHING about fault here, yours or
otherwise, either publically or privately. EVERYONE has said (and is
saying) that "Kenneth's effort shouldn't go to waste", "shouldn't throw the
baby out with the bathwater", etc. Kenneth, the community owes you an
enormous debt of gratitude for your efforts on their behalf! Let me be the
first to say...Thanks, Kenneth, for the endless hours with too little sleep
trying to do an impossible altruistic task while trying to manage and run a
startup company in one of the most cut-throat competitive environment on the
planet! WOW!

Okay, that said, because a couple of packages snuck onto the site is a
normal thing, particularly in a one-man, high volume site. So don't worry
about what other folks think, as far as us newties go, your halo is intact.
:) Now, to business...

So, we are putting a mailing list together for the project, and when it is
ready, we'll start. Kenneth, this is your baby, but knowing your time
constraints...if you want to work on it and even remotely have the time,
we'd love to have you in there with us! But don't commit to something that
you can't reasonably do...your effort WILL live on, period! It means too
much...to all of us!

Let me know what you want to do, my friend. And, Thanks!



----Original Message Follows----
From: kenneth wong <kenneth.wong@theactiveidea.com>
To: "'gmoody@hotmail.com'" <gmoody@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cleaning up NewtonMAD
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:34:49 +0800

Hi Gary

Since most people think I'm the one who started this problem in the first
place, I'd like to be a part of the cleanup operation as well.

I tried sending an explanation to the list several times but got bounced
with a message saying that too many posts had been made (?). I have attached
those messages for your reference and would appreciate it if you could post
on my behalf as well.


Kenneth Wong
Executive Vice President
Email : kenneth.wong@theactiveidea.com

The Active Idea Company Private Limited
29B Keong Saik Road Singapore 089136
Telephone : (65) 221 6266
Facsimile : (65) 221 6267
Web : http://www.theactiveidea.com/


              NTLK NewtonMad down and out
              Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:30:31 +0800
              "Kenneth Wong" <ghoonk@mailworld.net>
              The Active Idea Company
              1 , 2

Some points I would like to clarify:

1. It was unintentional that commercial software was not removed from
NewtonMAD. My apologies to all the developers who were inconvenienced by
this oversight.

2. If the archive were to be taken down because of an small percentage of
commercialware, think of what would be lost to the whole community. I could
help look into the archive and tag commercial files for removal, and that
would include all Apple software.

3. Bear in mind that I had no official permission to distribute any of
the files (freeware/shareware) on NewtonMAD. What I did, I did originally
for myself and my inner circle of Newton-toting friends. When the site was
made available to the public in 1997, I did so through a web interface which
'hid' the directory structure from the public eye. However, those versed in
the Web arts found they were able to access the rest of the archive and
download files they were not supposed to.

4. Bearing para. 3 in mind, software such as NCU, Newton Press, Newton
Print Pack and another thousand and one packages should not be on anyone's
server. NSBasic, iambic and if my memory recalls, PenTekk software packages
should not be on the server. Let's keep things in perspective here. On my
part, I can help with the removal of commercial software, and generate a
list of directories which should be removed so that other mirror owners can
comply with the ethical integrity of the archives they host.

In any case, I will be bringing NewtonMAD file archives back online with a
clean set of files within the next 2 weeks.

My apologies to the developers and mirror hosts and thanks for bringing it
to my attention.


Kenneth Wong


              Re: NTLK Re: Unauthorized Distribution of iambic Software
              Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:06:35 +0800
              "Kenneth Wong" <ghoonk@mailworld.net>
              The Active Idea Company

Hi Sunder

Sorry for the inconvenience regarding the presence of commercial software.

NewtonMAD does have some commercial software which belongs to some friends
of mine who travel frequently as as such leave their files on the server
once owned by myself. These files were supposed to have been removed from
the distributed archive and it appears that it was overlooked.

My apologies for the inconvenience caused



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sunder" <sunder@anon7b.sunder.net>
To: <newtontalk@planetnewton.com>; <BPrince15@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 3:57 AM
Subject: NTLK Re: Unauthorized Distribution of iambic Software

>Hi there,
>A while ago, the guy who ran the NewtonMad FTP archive was unable to
>continue running it due to traffic issues. He offered a big 170M zip file
>archive of the entire site. I was one of several people who offered to
>host it.
>I unfortunatly failed to take a close look at the individual files in
>As the archive was tainted by pirated software, I've removed the entire
>archive from my systems, and it will not return.
>You might wish to temporarily subscribe to the newtontalk mailing list
>hosted off planetnewton.com so as to advise all mirrors of this ftp
>archive as to this situation so that they may also remove them.
>I'm cc:'ing the list so as to help in alerting them.
>Thank you for informing of this breech.
>Barbara Prince wrote:
> >
> > Dear Sir/Madam:
> >
> > We are the legal copyright holder of the software
> > listed below. Your website contains unauthorized
> > copies of the software and we request that they be
> > removed immediately. We request that the individual
> > copies as well as any copies contained in a zip
> > archive be immediately deleted.
> >
> > We will pursue civil and criminal recourse if your
> > website continues to distribute this unauthorized
> > software.
> >
> > Action Names
> > Sub Patrol
> > Paper Pak
> > TimeReporter
> >
> > Thank you for your cooperation.
> >
> > Barbara Prince
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://im.yahoo.com
>---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos --------------------
> + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\
> \|/ sunder@sunder.net all government would be opposed to what /\|/\
><--*--> -------------------- we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/
> /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/
> + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ.
>---------------------------- http://www.sunder.net -----------------------
>I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.


              Re: NTLK NewtonMad
              Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:03:26 +0800
              "Kenneth Wong" <ghoonk@mailworld.net>
              The Active Idea Company

Dear all, this is EXACTLY why I did not want anyone doing a rip. As
mentioned, the files on NewtonMAD belong to either myself of a group of
close friends who also use the Newton. NewtonMAD was originally set up to
provide my inner circle of friends with an online resource where they could
easily download their files in the event of a hard reset while they were out
of the country.

With the passing of time, specific sections of NewtonMAD was opened to the
public to provide the Newton community with the same benefit. Then people
starting ripping the archive (my logs on a friend's server indicates that
this is still taking place) without informing me and happily grabbed a ton
of commercial software they were not supposed to.

When NewtonMAD was under my control, I made every effort to remove files
that were not supposed to be publicly available (Steve Weyer informed me
about the availability of Newtscape which I removed from the archive
immediately), and would like to make it clear that I do not endorse piracy.

Bear in mind that many of the NewtonMAD archives/mirrors out there may not
have been cleaned up as they were ripped prior to the removal of files.

I sincerely hope that this has cleared the air and my stand on this issue.


Kenneth Wong

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Henne" <gh@nsbasic.com>
To: <newtontalk@planetnewton.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 2:08 AM
Subject: NTLK NewtonMad

>There is an archive called NewtonMAD on the net. It seems to contain
>copies of most of the Newton software ever produced, included commercial
>Many of the producers of the commercial software are still in business
>and supporting their Newton products. They're not doing it because it's a
>good business to be in: honestly, there isn't very much. They do it
>because they like the platform and want to continue to support it.
>Piracy hurts us all. If the commercial developers desert the platform, an
>important support for the community will be gone, and the little
>lightbulb we love will disappear more quickly.
>Please help by getting the various copies of NewtonMAD cleaned up of
>pirated software. It could be a valuable resource to all.
>George Henne NS BASIC Corporation
>http://www.nsbasic.com Orders: 416 264-5999 Fax: 416 264-5888
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