Re: [NTLK] Newton DIL Tester

From: Paul Guyot (pguyot_at_kallisys.net)
Date: Sat Apr 13 2002 - 04:27:13 EDT


Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:26:13 -0500
From: Paul Nuernberger <newton_at_thenuernbergers.com>

>According to what others more knowledgeable than myself have said, the
>Newton-side dock application does not have TCP/IP (correctly, fully)
>implemented internally, but relies on EtherTalk (AppleTalk over TCP/IP) or
>serial data for full functionality.

EtherTalk isn't AppleTalk over TCP/IP (both exists).

The dock application only provides without any addition:
IrDA
Modem
MNP Serial (38400)
LocalTalk

Dock can be enhanced with several software:

With Newton Devices and an Ethernet driver plus an ethernet card, you
can have EtherTalk (this actually is done at a lower layer than the
Dock app).

With Newton Devices, an Ethernet driver, NIE Ethernet, NIE Core, an
ethernet card and Thomas's Dock TCP/IP you can have TCP/IP.

With Philz's Serial 115 K you can have Serial (with or without MNP, I
don't recall) at 115 K.

WIth Philz's FastSerial you can have MNP Serial at 57600.

There are also Serial 2400/4800/9600 provided by Apple.

>All Macintosh products that dock with the newton via Ethernet do so using
>EtherTalk, and NOT TCP/IP alone.

The DIL can connect via:
AppleTalk (EtherTalk, LocalTalk) [MacOS]
CommToolbox [MacOS], which means IrDA for example
MNP Serial [MacOS, Win]
TCP/IP [MacOS, Win]

To give further details, the AppleTalk sub-protocol used by the
Newton is ADSP (AppleTalk Data Streaming Protocol). This protocol
isn't available in free implementations of AppleTalk AFAIK. It isn't
available via documented ways in MacOS X (it seems to be implemented
in Darwin, though).

>I have never been able to get Windows DIL Tester to talk TCP/IP reliably
>with any newton (& I have tried with several on different PC's), and the
>PC-side tools from Apple made no attempt to get AppleTalk or EtherTalk or
>TCP/IP working in any fashion (not including the actual DIL, which was
>nowhere near a finished tool).

Let me disagree. The DIL is a finished tool. Of course, it doesn't do
everything we want, but it was designed to let developers write
application that connect with the Newton and get data there.

>Without information from Apple that correctly & FULLY details the dock
>protocol and inner workings

which are on my website

>- someone will have to reinvent the wheel. Ask
>Paul Guyot about his 'fun with newton dock'.

Yeah, I really enjoyed cracking the DES challenge ;)

>It may indeed seem to be contradictory, but until someone proves me wrong by
>actually making that work ... I will continue to say that it will not.

Where I agree with you is that AFAIK, there isn't any fully working
dock-based backup software except Apple's wonderfully working NCU and
NBU.

Paul

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