Re: [NTLK] OT - PowerBook OS Level to be a Newt Accessory?

~~~ On 2008/06/06 06:59, Jon Glass at jonglass@usa.net wrote ~~~

> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:23 AM, Lord Groundhog <LordGroundhog@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> I have run it on a PB 1400, Pismo and am running it on a PowerWave
>>> with a G3 brain transplant. In fact, I moved the PowerWave back to
>>> 9.0.4, and have been happier with that over both 9.1 and 9.2.2...
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>> Just to put a different view, I first met OS 9 when I got my new Pismo, and
>> found 9.0.4 a little rocky but especially to be a bit uncompliant.
>
> I suppose I should have qualified my statement more. I threw in my
> Pismo, because I have run OS 9 on it. However, I should have added
> some qualifications. Both the PowerWave and the PB1400 came out years
> before OS 9. The Pismo came with OS 9, as well as with new-gen
> hardware--IDE drives (Ok, the PB1400 did IDE, too, but the PowerWave
> needs an aftermarket card), Firewire, USB... On the Pismo, 9.2.2 is
> what I ran asap, and yes, it was more stable under that--but then
> again, it had 384 meg of RAM, too. 9.2.2 craves ram more than the
> earlier versions.
>
> My recommendation for older systems (like the 3400 that originally ran
> 7.6) would be to not go beyond 9.0.4. 9.1 introduced things to help
> compatibliity with OS X, as well as to make it more stable on the new
> world hardware. It has always been my suspicion that those
> forward-compatibility elements are exactly what make the OS crash on
> older, legacy hardware. All I know is that my PB 1400 hated 9.1, as
> does our PowerWave. Actually, the 1400 probably ran best under 7.6 and
> 8.5.... but they were lacking something I needed--oh, networking
> didn't work properly with OS 9, IIRC, so I was forced to move both up
> to OS 9.
>
> So, with that in mind, with limited RAM, and with no needs to network
> with OS X or 9.1+, I would probably stick with System 7.6.... but
> that's my thoughts.
>
>
This (and some comments further down) help me and clarify a lot. I've
recently come into possession of a couple of older Mac laptops including a
3400 that I want to get working again and use, and I would've been inclined
to take them to 9.2.2, using third party enhancement if necessary. Since
the Pismo was my first Mac, I wouldn't have known better if you hadn't
explained this stuff. It sounds to me like that would be a bad idea. So,
thanks.

> ...
> Well, I certainly wasn't one! I had _no_ desire to upgrade to X when
> it came out! For me it would have been/was a giant leap _backwards_ in
> knowledge and understanding--a bigger leap, in fact, than moving to
> Windows! I put it off as long as possible. Ask my friends on my
> Mac-Ministry mailing list. I was kind of an anachronism and a thorn in
> the flesh to all who had upgraded.
>
With you there. I was our MUG's official Luddite, along with 2 or 3 other
die-hards who all gave in before me. I finally went straight in at 10.3.3
because of something I needed, but I'm still not 100% OS X. I still have my
doubts about it's design, although on the whole I like it and it beats
windoze.

But there's STILL no single app for OS X that does everything I could do
with SoundJam, as well as SoundJam could do it ... :(

> But that said, OS 9.2.2 still wasn't super stable for me. I could
> probably go a few days or week, but never weeks on end. Sometimes,
> however, it would just sit and crash... very frustrating when it did.
> But I'll also be honest. My march of icons was waaaay too long, and I
> tend to push my hardware--have way too many apps open, etc.
>
My record time, only achieved once, was to boot up the day of our MUG
meeting, and not switch off before the next month's MUG meeting. But since
I don't use stuff like Photoshop, that's hardly astonishing. But 2 weeks at
a time between 3-finger salutes was easy.

> On a Pismo, yes. But I fear that the 3400 won't cut it for 9.2.2 or
> 9.1, based on my usage on other hardware from that era--PB 1400 and
> PowerWave. lack of RAM is crucial. Oh, and another thought 9.2.2 can
> be HUGE on the hard drive. I've pared mine down in recent years (to
> try to keep it stable under X). Right now, it's about 550meg, but I
> was well over a gig when it was my only OS.
>
I'd be interested to know how and what you pared away, if that's not too
much bother.

And as I said, now that you've explained, I see your point. I think I know
someone who might lend me his old System 7 disks -- maybe even 8. I've
heard mixed opinions on the comparison between 7 and 8. Which would be
better in a 3400?

> Oh, and my Pismo is _still_ my only/main computer. I recently bought
> an even older Dell laptop to put Linux onto, but it's more of an
> experiment/toy than a serious business tool. ;-) (Wife bought herself
> an eeePC, but her main computer is _her_ Pismo) But I avoid using
> Classic like the plague! ;-)
>
Ditto. "My" computer means my Pismo or my backup Pismo. "The" computer
means any other Mac in the building. Once you allow for different levels of
technology available at different times, and just talk about implementation
and user-centeredness, I reckon it represents Mac laptop design at its
pinnacle, and will for some time. (That's why I have a backup Pismo.) I
got round the Classic issue by making my machines dual-boot.

> ***One bit of advice for any user of System 9 or earlier. Always, and
> I mean, always, quit programs in the reverse order that you opened
> them. So if you start app A, B, C and D, quit D before you quite any
> other program, and then quit C, before B and A, and B before A.
> Otherwise your memory will get fragmented, and your OS will get all
> discombobulated, and it'll crash. Modern operating systems can move
> apps in memory to reclaim empty RAM, but earlier systems cannot.
>
Absolutely! I credit this with a lot of the stability I get from OS 9. I
once told somebody that not doing this is like trying take off your
underwear while you're still in your overcoat, and he laughed, but he never
forgot it (and there's a story that goes with that, concerning him on his
honeymoon in a Norwegian winter, with his new wife in a parked car with a
couple of hours to kill, and why he started laughing uncontrollably at her,
but we should perhaps draw a veil over that).
 
Shalom.

Christian

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

OS9.2.2: what OSX wants to be when it grows up.
http://www.os9forever.com/

~~~ ~~~ ~~~
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Received on Fri Jun 6 07:36:30 2008